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This post was inspired by a Tweet. The Tweet was inspired by another tweet, etc.
The subject of the Twitter thread was Apple’s threat to deplatform Twitter because it is now promoting freedom of expression. Molly Hemingway tweeted out Governor Ron DeSantis’ criticism of Apple and complained how few Republicans are willing to take on the tech oligarchy. Someone replied to Molly about how Republicans are all for staying out of private businesses business. And then someone called Ethandum replied to that with the following —
The GOP does not have an intellectual framework for regulation of corp[oration]s. Either [Republicans] needs [sic] to adopt one or get out of the way. Historically conservatives viewed -large- corp[oration]s very differently from -small- ones. Small businesses should have more freedom + be regulated by local gov[ernment].
As I read that I thought, “That’s right!” What is the intellectual framework for regulating (controlling) corporations in the public sphere? Citizens United was supposed to be a big victory for corporate speech that supported conservative principles. But now woke corporations are on board with the Progressive Project and it is a weapon employed against individual liberty.
So what should be done? If Republicans were to adopt Democrat arguments employed in Citizens United it will alienate some (all?) major donors. In effect, such a Republican stance in practical terms is unilateral disarmament in the political war. And yet an “arms race” where each party is bidding up the price of political support wrecks our society.
Have we passed a tipping point? Is there a way back?
I don’t agree with Molly on this. Desantis is threatening state action against a company for actions that have nothing to do with national security. A user of an iphone can still access Twitter through the web. I generally find apps to be annoying. And Apple, through market power, is not shutting down a competitor.
Chris Williamson (View Comment):
I don’t agree with Molly on this. Desantis is threatening state action against a company for actions that have nothing to do with national security. A user of an iphone can still access Twitter through the web. I generally find apps to be annoying. And Apple, through market power, is not shutting down a competitor.
So, do you believe that Apple deplatforming the Twitter app is a good, bad, or a non-event? How did you feel about Amazon kicking Parler off its web server? Do you see that as good, bad, or a non-event? Do you see a tech oligarchy at work or do you see these as purely private interests being served/affected?
If I have an apple phone, apple should not get to tell me I cannot run a bit of software because they don’t like it.
What we need is a theory of property rights, including things like right to repair. Apple should not get to deny me my use of something I paid for. To do so is a violation of my rights.
Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
If I have an apple phone, apple should not get to tell me I cannot run a bit of software because they don’t like it.
What we need is a theory of property rights, including things like right to repair. Apple should not get to deny me my use of something I paid for. To do so is a violation of my rights.
Congress left the door wide open on this with software rental and denial of use cause we don’t like you.
Kevin Schulte (View Comment):
Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
If I have an apple phone, apple should not get to tell me I cannot run a bit of software because they don’t like it.
What we need is a theory of property rights, including things like right to repair. Apple should not get to deny me my use of something I paid for. To do so is a violation of my rights.
Congress left the door wide open on this with software rental and denial of use cause we don’t like you.
Yes. I think the GOP peak can make real hay on this.
Car companies are getting ready to charge people subscriptions for things like heated seats. I can’t imagine that’s popular with democrats republicans or independent voters.
Now Apple is helping the CCP manage citizen protests.
Too bad everyone can’t just “mind their own business.”
Rodin (View Comment):
Now Apple is helping the CCP manage citizen protests.
And this is considered “OK”
I don’t understand why the GOP won’t fight that being “OK”
The Supreme Court has ruled on exactly this issue in Marsh vs Alabama. The Court said in part-
“Ownership does not always mean absolute dominion. The more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it.”
This argument bull’s-eye’s companies like Twitter and Facebook .
The Court goes on-
“The managers appointed by the corporation cannot curtail the liberty of press and religion of these people consistently with the purposes of the Constitutional guarantees “
And
“Just as all other citizens, they must make decisions which affect the welfare of community and nation. To act as good citizens, they must be informed. In order to enable them to be properly informed, their information must be uncensored”
Ekosj (View Comment):
The Supreme Court has ruled on exactly this issue in Marsh vs Alabama. The Court said in part-
“Ownership does not always mean absolute dominion. The more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it.”
This argument bull’s-eye’s companies like Twitter and Facebook .
The Court goes on-
“The managers appointed by the corporation cannot curtail the liberty of press and religion of these people consistently with the purposes of the Constitutional guarantees “
And
“Just as all other citizens, they must make decisions which affect the welfare of community and nation. To act as good citizens, they must be informed. In order to enable them to be properly informed, their information must be uncensored”
Yeah
Chris Williamson (View Comment):
I don’t agree with Molly on this. Desantis is threatening state action against a company for actions that have nothing to do with national security. A user of an iphone can still access Twitter through the web. I generally find apps to be annoying. And Apple, through market power, is not shutting down a competitor.
Conservatives should support free markets. Free markets are not unregulated markets, because some regulation is required to keep markets free and functional. When a monopoly or collusion of oligarchs interferes with free markets, then society has an obligation to take action to restore a free market.
The GOP philosophy seems to be “what’s good for GM is good for America”. That is, government should support the wants of mega-corporations. This is not necessarily best for society and thus not conservative. There was a time, when corporations could not be created unless they proved their existence was a benefit for society. We don’t need to go that far, but we need to remember that the legal framework for corporations exists to benefit society.
Rodin (View Comment):
Now Apple is helping the CCP manage citizen protests put down slave-worker revolts.
FIFY. Remember, those protests started in the Apple (FoxConn) sweat shops.
I object strenuously to the mere title, “crony capitalism.” Cronyism it is, certainly. Capitalism it just as certainly is NOT.
Quietpi (View Comment):
I object strenuously to the mere title, “crony capitalism.” Cronyism it is, certainly. Capitalism it just as certainly is NOT.
I agree with the proposition that crony capitalism is not Adam Smith’s formulation of free markets, that Marx (possibly copying someone else) labeled as capitalism. But it is a losing proposition in the public square to try and distinguish between free markets and capitalism. There is more hope in identifying crony capitalism as a counterfeit of free markets.
If Big Tech is controlling the dissemination of information/news with the ability and willingness to censor, and it is apparent Big Tech political giving is nearly all to the (D) and there is a revolving door between the (D)Party and top Big Tech management positions, then we have a serious problem which threatens the (R)’s ability to ever win a National election much less ever get out a coherent message.
Look at our current state of affairs in the US, the economic conditions are at an all time mess, but you don’t get that sense from the MSM/BigTech news dissemination.
Contrast that with the Trump era when the economic condition were at historic highs and may never be that good again, yet the MSM/BigTech propaganda machine amazingly were able to present a sense of sky is falling because Trump …. and voila …. Trump is gone.
That’s scary when you can convince the majority of voters things suck economically when it is quite literally as good as it’s ever been.
Big Tech needs to be broken up and/or seriously regulated to restore the free flow of information.
EDISONPARKS (View Comment):
Big Tech needs to be broken up and/or seriously regulated to restore the free flow of information.
It won’t be. It will never be.
The Left controls everything
Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
If I have an apple phone, apple should not get to tell me I cannot run a bit of software because they don’t like it.
What we need is a theory of property rights, including things like right to repair. Apple should not get to deny me my use of something I paid for. To do so is a violation of my rights.
Technics can sell me a turntable but I wouldn’t buy their turntable if Technics tried to limit what genre I could play on it.
This is my comment on the subject:
https://ricochet.com/901832/the-privatization-of-the-public-commons/
People are worried about whether or not MAGA would vote for DeSantis. They better be worried about whether libertarians would support him. He is cheered for using authoritarian means to stop the left. While I enjoy watching him win as a governor, his wins and tactics do not translate well to the federal executive. Strong governors should fight their battles at the state-level. Voters should be wary of thinking everything works well nationally.
Red Herring (View Comment):
People are worried about whether or not MAGA would vote for DeSantis. They better be worried about whether libertarians would support him. He is cheered for using authoritarian means to stop the left. While I enjoy watching him win as a governor, his wins and tactics do not translate well to the federal executive. Strong governors should fight their battles at the state-level. Voters should be wary of thinking everything works well nationally.
It’s possible that he will make adjustments, realizing one size doesn’t fit all. What about his style do you think won’t work?
Susan Quinn (View Comment):
Red Herring (View Comment):
People are worried about whether or not MAGA would vote for DeSantis. They better be worried about whether libertarians would support him. He is cheered for using authoritarian means to stop the left. While I enjoy watching him win as a governor, his wins and tactics do not translate well to the federal executive. Strong governors should fight their battles at the state-level. Voters should be wary of thinking everything works well nationally.
It’s possible that he will make adjustments, realizing one size doesn’t fit all. What about his style do you think won’t work?
Start with the enumerated powers that limit the federal government and the Bill of Rights that reserved the rest to states and people. Different level, different powers. Then add in a more friendly and less corrupt state legislature than Congress. Then add in the member of lefty enemies one has of the federal than state level and the dollars the lefties and globalists will spend to attack you. Then notice he was the governor of an existing, well- run state while DC is a dysfunctional, corrupt government. Then ponder what you like about him. I don’t dislike them. I wish every red state had a governor like him.
Huge Issue.
The large Woke Corporations which have been financed by the FED are set to control virtually everything. They are strongly aligned with the World Economic Forum and are the heft behind the Great Reset. If such behavior is allowed to continue it will be the end of our Constitutional Republic. Plain and Simple. Apple is just the tip of the Iceberg. With the coming advent of the FED’s ‘programable dollars” or digital currency, which Biden has already signed an Executive Order to push through, our Woke government will have the means to surveil and control virtually every American.
I favor a corporate tax rate of upwards of 90% on all Corporations, and a 90% plus income tax those responsible in and out of government for such decisions within those corporations that censor the American people and those corporations who discriminate against the religious, white people and gun owners as well as anyone involved with a digital currency or requiring the VAX. While one may argue that it is the legal right of Corporations to do such things, it is the legal right of the American People in the public interest to discourage such behavior with a huge tax. Just like the tax on alcohol or cigarettes which discourages their use, but this issue is far, far more consequential to the American People.
New times require new thinking. Our founders were far-ranging and forward-thinking, but no one in the 1770s could have thought corporations like Apple and Google could exist. Combine their alignment with the government and an enormously dangerous situation has been created. We must make adjustments or our country will look very much like China in the near future.
All the many US Corporations which have now accrued more power than most mid-sized nations definitely need oversight.
Foundations on the order of Bill Gates “Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation” and the George Soros’ run “network of Open Society” foundations definitely require oversight.
This is because these entities form an overwhelming ability to shape the hearts and minds of our citizenry by control of the media and use of the monies for everything from scholarship funds to prestigious positions on boards of America’s universities.
In the case of Gates’ foundation, no more respected journalistic entity than that of the Columbia Review of Journalism found out by Aug 2020 that his foundation donated vast amounts of monies to 50 media “non-profit” outlets. These included NPR radio, the BBC, and even “Media Matters.” The latter organization supposedly exists to ensure that no monies compromise the independence of America’s media!!
(And as we discovered through the recent humongous Federal fine imposed on Facebook, our tech platforms have far too much ability to donate dark monies and to censor anyone differing from the philosophy of the Dem CCP-run party from expressing even the smallest notion of opposition.)
When Republicans state they are not interested in being involved with the ” business of American “businesses,” they are basically stating that it is fine with them that regulatory agencies are now regulating many small businesses out of business.
Of course we already knew that from the way that Republicans treated the recent “mini-martial” law orders related to COVID. Those of us who were oppressed by such soon saw that Republican leaders were indifferent at best, or part of the gravy train at their worst.
The regulations enforced in so many places like Illinois, Calif, NY state, MN, and Massachusetts have caused a rampant increase in numbers of suicides, rampant loss of family owned businesses, overwhelming increases in teenager and also pre-teen depressions.
Our young people are still at danger for their depressive state. Such factors do not immediately become dissipated just because Draconian Rules are dispelled. The effects most likely will linger on for decades. (Just as the Vietnam-era 19 year olds with low draft numbers still have contempt for a government that sent them off to be injured or die in a war for profit – a fact about the war that was evident by 1968.)
Why was the Draconian Rule of Law tolerated? Because so many Republicans were content to say “States’ rights.” (And this includes Republican Donald Trump who was president at the time of the most egregious of these measures.)
When States’ rights allow for citizens to lose any ability to hold on to their family businesses, any right to continue to somehow pay for hearth and home, and just as importantly we lost the concept of freedom of movement, and yet few Republicans care to intervene, the American public in at least one dozen states is screwed.
CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
All the many US Corporations which have now accrued more power than most mid-sized nations definitely need oversight.
Foundations on the order of Bill Gates “Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation” and the George Soros’ run “network of Open Society” foundations definitely require oversight.
<snip>
In the case of Gates’ foundation, no more respected journalistic entity than that of the Columbia Review of Journalism found out by Aug 2020 that his foundation donated vast amounts of monies to 50 media “non-profit” outlets. These included NPR radio, the BBC, and even “Media Matters.” The latter organization supposedly exists to ensure that no monies compromise the independence of America’s media!!
(And as we discovered through the recent humongous Federal fine imposed on Facebook, our tech platforms have far too much ability to donate dark monies and to censor anyone differing from the philosophy of the Dem CCP-run party from expressing even the smallest notion of opposition.)
When Republicans state they are not interested in being involved with the ” business of American “businesses,” they are basically stating that it is fine with them that regulatory agencies are now regulating many small businesses out of business.
Of course we already knew that from the way that Republicans treated the recent “mini-martial” law orders related to COVID. Those of us who were oppressed by such soon saw that Republican leaders were indifferent at best, or part of the gravy train at their worst.
The regulations enforced in so many places like Illinois, Calif, NY state, MN, and Massachusetts have caused a rampant increase in numbers of suicides, rampant loss of family owned businesses, overwhelming increases in teenager and also pre-teen depressions.
Our young people are still at danger for their depressive state. Such factors do not immediately become dissipated just because Draconian Rules are dispelled. The effects most likely will linger on for decades. (Just as the Vietnam-era 19 year olds with low draft numbers still have contempt for a government that sent them off to be injured or die in a war for profit – a fact about the war that was evident by 1968.)
Why was the Draconian Rule of Law tolerated? Because so many Republicans were content to say “States’ rights.” (And this includes Republican Donald Trump who was president at the time of the most egregious of these measures.)
When States’ rights allow for citizens to lose any ability to hold on to their family businesses, any right to continue to somehow pay for hearth and home, and just as importantly we lost the concept of freedom of movement, and yet few Republicans care to intervene, the American public in at least one dozen states is screwed.
The Republicans seem to never miss a chance to miss a chance, while the Democrats never let a crises go to waste.
Unsk (View Comment):
Huge Issue.
The large Woke Corporations which have been financed by the FED are set to control virtually everything. They are strongly aligned with the World Economic Forum and are the heft behind the Great Reset. If such behavior is allowed to continue it will be the end of our Constitutional Republic. Plain and Simple. Apple is just the tip of the Iceberg. With the coming advent of the FED’s ‘programable dollars” or digital currency, which Biden has already signed an Executive Order to push through, our Woke government will have the means to surveil and control virtually every American.
I favor a corporate tax rate of upwards of 90% on all Corporations, and a 90% plus income tax those responsible in and out of government for such decisions within those corporations that censor the American people and those corporations who discriminate against the religious, white people and gun owners as well as anyone involved with a digital currency or requiring the VAX. While one may argue that it is the legal right of Corporations to do such things, it is the legal right of the American People in the public interest to discourage such behavior with a huge tax. Just like the tax on alcohol or cigarettes which discourages their use, but this issue is far, far more consequential to the American People.
While I am sympathetic to your anger, the taxation notion is problematic as corporations don’t pay taxes — their customers and shareholders do. But maybe that was your idea — tax them out of existence.
Rodin, theoretically in the end shareholders pay corporate taxes, but such ideas now seem quaint since long ago management of the largest corporations found elaborate ways to hijack the control of these behemoths from shareholders with mega billionaires like Elon Musk being the exception. Case in point would you believe most shareholders in a company like Disney or Apple really believe pursuing crazy woke policies beneficial for their investment?
But to your point if profits of these huge corporations were severely punished to a tiny fraction of what they otherwise would have been( your typical C Corp has double taxation – first at the Corporate level then at the personnel) the stock price would Ada result plummet dramatically and would force these often woke management teams to pursue rational strategies not woke one’s to avoid a disastrous stock price decline.
Also the advantage of a tax is all it needs is a simple majority in both houses of Congress and a President willing to sign it whereas seeking some sort of judicial just remedy is likely to be frustrated by the Roberts Court who have been very lax defending our Constitutional rights.
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